Comments for think, ponder, muse... http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com ...on being the church that follows Jesus Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:43:57 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on when God doesn’t agree with our hearts by Page Hamilton http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/when-god-doesnt-agree-with-our-hearts/#comment-276 Page Hamilton Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:43:57 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-276 Free, Yes, thought provoking! thanks. Free,
Yes, thought provoking! thanks.

]]> Comment on when God doesn’t agree with our hearts by Free Spirit http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/when-god-doesnt-agree-with-our-hearts/#comment-275 Free Spirit Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:13:37 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-275 Great words here, Page! Well said! :) Brings up another verse about heart thinking... "as a man thinketh IN HIS HEART, so is he" interesting. Great words here, Page! Well said! :)

Brings up another verse about heart thinking…

“as a man thinketh IN HIS HEART, so is he”

interesting.

]]> Comment on when God doesn’t agree with our hearts by Page Hamilton http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/when-god-doesnt-agree-with-our-hearts/#comment-274 Page Hamilton Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:04:58 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-274 Gordon - yes, I can appreciate what you're saying. And as it goes, sometimes the best defense is a great offense! And here I mean boldly living free of condemnation, being unapologetic receivers of his grace and kindness, that he might display to this world and to the heavenlies the kind of loving Father he really is (Eph 2). ded - thanks for your thoughtful answer - stimulates more thought again. Yes, our gathering began with the sense that God wanted to have us centered on the elusive idea that love really is what it's all about, loving God, receiving his love, and loving others, and allow him to teach us the truth about it so it's not so elusive. Else, why would he have made it the top priority? Not that we could really do anything to make it any kind of theme, per se, but I must say that over the long haul, we come 'round to understanding love gradually. Good thoughts. Gordon – yes, I can appreciate what you’re saying. And as it goes, sometimes the best defense is a great offense! And here I mean boldly living free of condemnation, being unapologetic receivers of his grace and kindness, that he might display to this world and to the heavenlies the kind of loving Father he really is (Eph 2).

ded – thanks for your thoughtful answer – stimulates more thought again. Yes, our gathering began with the sense that God wanted to have us centered on the elusive idea that love really is what it’s all about, loving God, receiving his love, and loving others, and allow him to teach us the truth about it so it’s not so elusive. Else, why would he have made it the top priority? Not that we could really do anything to make it any kind of theme, per se, but I must say that over the long haul, we come ’round to understanding love gradually. Good thoughts.

]]> Comment on when God doesn’t agree with our hearts by ded http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/when-god-doesnt-agree-with-our-hearts/#comment-273 ded Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:40:26 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-273 Page, Within the text you mention is a clue to why we feel condemnation in specific terms. <i>let us not love with words or tongue</i> Our old nature is steeped with not only our old way of thinking but of feeling, as well. The entire culture (and I think this would be universal across the globe due to the fall) reinforces false messages and actions of what love is. This perspective is built on self-preservation--getting along well in the culture is a strong motivator to be what others expect. Thanks for reminding us that we are learning the love of heaven and God does not condemn us as we learn by doing, nor does He condemn when we reject religious activity. Page,

Within the text you mention is a clue to why we feel condemnation in specific terms.

let us not love with words or tongue

Our old nature is steeped with not only our old way of thinking but of feeling, as well. The entire culture (and I think this would be universal across the globe due to the fall) reinforces false messages and actions of what love is. This perspective is built on self-preservation–getting along well in the culture is a strong motivator to be what others expect.

Thanks for reminding us that we are learning the love of heaven and God does not condemn us as we learn by doing, nor does He condemn when we reject religious activity.

]]> Comment on when God doesn’t agree with our hearts by Gordon Brock http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/when-god-doesnt-agree-with-our-hearts/#comment-272 Gordon Brock Sun, 08 Mar 2009 23:17:41 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=103#comment-272 That's another great thought, Page. But I can see the 'religious' saying, "what? You don't want to be convicted of wrong?" I'm sure you are implying a difference between conviction and condemnation, but unfortunately, sometimes we have to actually SAY that in a defensive posture. That’s another great thought, Page. But I can see the ‘religious’ saying, “what? You don’t want to be convicted of wrong?” I’m sure you are implying a difference between conviction and condemnation, but unfortunately, sometimes we have to actually SAY that in a defensive posture.

]]> Comment on relationships, boundaries, and skating lessons by Page http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/relationships-boundaries-and-skating-lessons/#comment-271 Page Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:54:53 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-271 Gordon - your story confirms what I have found to be true - that real accountability is something that is a natural byproduct of good relationships where Jesus is the shepherd. Thanks for sharing. Gordon – your story confirms what I have found to be true – that real accountability is something that is a natural byproduct of good relationships where Jesus is the shepherd. Thanks for sharing.

]]> Comment on relationships, boundaries, and skating lessons by Gordon Brock http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/relationships-boundaries-and-skating-lessons/#comment-270 Gordon Brock Mon, 02 Mar 2009 06:39:06 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-270 Funny, I just flipped over to FB after writing this, and see that you were trying to chat me! Funny, I just flipped over to FB after writing this, and see that you were trying to chat me!

]]> Comment on relationships, boundaries, and skating lessons by Gordon Brock http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/relationships-boundaries-and-skating-lessons/#comment-269 Gordon Brock Mon, 02 Mar 2009 06:37:50 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-269 Well, to answer your question Page, I have to think about my best friend Wes. He and I did the accountability thing every Sunday after church for quite a while (sometimes had included another person or two). But by then it had changed from the 'pastor led', 'confess your sins and how hard you are trying to battle the flesh or overcome the items on our list' type of accountability, to brothers encouraging each other in the Holy Spirit, discussing what the Lord was dealing with in us, teaching us, or leading us into. Side note- I had started to believe the 'list of sins' that we were "working out how to avoid or battle against" was a perpetual battle, because we were doing it in the flesh, and focusing so much on 'don't do the sins', instead of focusing on 'get closer to Jesus'. I was feeling that if I got closer to Jesus, matured in the Spirit, then the strength of the Spirit was going to help me keep from sin, instead of my flesh trying to fight...well, what my flesh actually WANTED to do in the first place. Anyway, Wes and grew so much in a deepness of relationship with the Lord and each other, that 'accountability' no longer had a negative connotation, nor was it a scary embarrassing concept like when we were accountable to a leader-led small group of men. When we would miss a Sunday or two, there would actually be a desire to come back together and share. We continued to meet after leaving the IC (our two couples basically left the IC together) because we had come to believe our time together was more 'church' than when we 'went to church'. It had become so exciting to see the Lord using us in our daily lives, teaching us to be good husbands, fathers, employees, and friends, and learning to truly trust the Holy Spirit's leading in our lives. And that is how I would say it happens in an organic flow; we share the things the Lord is doing IN us and with us, we allow each other the right to 'call to the carpet', we challenge each other to growth, encourage each other in Spiritual maturity, and give God all the glory! Well, to answer your question Page, I have to think about my best friend Wes. He and I did the accountability thing every Sunday after church for quite a while (sometimes had included another person or two). But by then it had changed from the ‘pastor led’, ‘confess your sins and how hard you are trying to battle the flesh or overcome the items on our list’ type of accountability, to brothers encouraging each other in the Holy Spirit, discussing what the Lord was dealing with in us, teaching us, or leading us into.
Side note- I had started to believe the ‘list of sins’ that we were “working out how to avoid or battle against” was a perpetual battle, because we were doing it in the flesh, and focusing so much on ‘don’t do the sins’, instead of focusing on ‘get closer to Jesus’. I was feeling that if I got closer to Jesus, matured in the Spirit, then the strength of the Spirit was going to help me keep from sin, instead of my flesh trying to fight…well, what my flesh actually WANTED to do in the first place.
Anyway, Wes and grew so much in a deepness of relationship with the Lord and each other, that ‘accountability’ no longer had a negative connotation, nor was it a scary embarrassing concept like when we were accountable to a leader-led small group of men. When we would miss a Sunday or two, there would actually be a desire to come back together and share. We continued to meet after leaving the IC (our two couples basically left the IC together) because we had come to believe our time together was more ‘church’ than when we ‘went to church’. It had become so exciting to see the Lord using us in our daily lives, teaching us to be good husbands, fathers, employees, and friends, and learning to truly trust the Holy Spirit’s leading in our lives. And that is how I would say it happens in an organic flow; we share the things the Lord is doing IN us and with us, we allow each other the right to ‘call to the carpet’, we challenge each other to growth, encourage each other in Spiritual maturity, and give God all the glory!

]]> Comment on relationships, boundaries, and skating lessons by Page http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/relationships-boundaries-and-skating-lessons/#comment-267 Page Sun, 01 Mar 2009 07:52:29 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-267 Gordon, Sounds healthy. We keep coming back to believing relationships are the foundation God builds the Kingdom on - both ours with him and with others. The "accountability" topic comes up a lot in the transition out of the church business to the simple/organic flow. Curious what your thoughts are for how accountability happens in the latter? Gordon,
Sounds healthy. We keep coming back to believing relationships are the foundation God builds the Kingdom on – both ours with him and with others. The “accountability” topic comes up a lot in the transition out of the church business to the simple/organic flow. Curious what your thoughts are for how accountability happens in the latter?

]]> Comment on relationships, boundaries, and skating lessons by Gordon Brock http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/relationships-boundaries-and-skating-lessons/#comment-266 Gordon Brock Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:52:47 +0000 http://pagehamilton.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-266 I'd like to share that one thing my old IC was good at, was emphasizing relationships. My family has many good, close friends due to that, and they are still our friends even though we have left the IC. We believe we are still one in the body with them, and we make sure they know that we love them that way even though they are still in the IC. One issue, however, was that along with the 'relationship' push, came 'accountability' push. My old shepherd LOVES the verse about "as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" and that is his basis for the 'accountability structure', which always had him at the top, of course. Not that he didn't make himself accountable, but he was still the 'head'. This focused on 'confessing your sins and struggles', and using principles to overcome our sin nature. There never was a focus on Jesus alone, with asking HIM to change our nature. It always seemed to be man-effort-centered. (you can see an example of this from his comments in one of my blogs) Anyway, I believe I am blessed to have families still in the IC that are still very close brothers and sisters because of the growing together we did while in the IC. I’d like to share that one thing my old IC was good at, was emphasizing relationships. My family has many good, close friends due to that, and they are still our friends even though we have left the IC. We believe we are still one in the body with them, and we make sure they know that we love them that way even though they are still in the IC.
One issue, however, was that along with the ‘relationship’ push, came ‘accountability’ push. My old shepherd LOVES the verse about “as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another” and that is his basis for the ‘accountability structure’, which always had him at the top, of course. Not that he didn’t make himself accountable, but he was still the ‘head’. This focused on ‘confessing your sins and struggles’, and using principles to overcome our sin nature. There never was a focus on Jesus alone, with asking HIM to change our nature. It always seemed to be man-effort-centered. (you can see an example of this from his comments in one of my blogs)
Anyway, I believe I am blessed to have families still in the IC that are still very close brothers and sisters because of the growing together we did while in the IC.

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